“Humility and Hustle” with Nest’s Rebecca van Bergen

(This is a computer-generated transcript. While it has been lightly edited, there may be some errors.)

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Pauline Bartolone: This is the Secrets of Mastery, a series of conversations with artisans about what it takes to master their craft and what their journey has taught them. I'm Pauline Bartolone, and this is a production of Craftsmanship Magazine. A multimedia publication about artisans and innovators who are creating a world built to last.

On this edition, it’s one thing to make, it’s another thing to sell. We talk with Rebecca van Bergen about what craftspeople need to have thriving businesses. Van Bergen is founder and director of NEST, which props up craftspeople around the world by providing training, resources and business opportunities. The international organization has worked with 2000 artisans and businesses in more than 100 countries, from quilters in Alabama to candle makers in Taiwan. Because of Nest’s work, potters, jewelers and textile workers sell their wares through major brands such as Madewell and Anthropologie.

Van Bergen: One of the questions I’m often asked is whether or not with robotics and AI whether the death of craftsmanship is upon us.  And I think we’ve seen the opposite. And the more we swing in that direction, the more the human psyche craves something else. 

Pauline Bartolone: Van Bergen’s training as a social worker is the foundation of her work to help craft business grow. Her own grandmothers were textile workers. I asked her about what craftspeople need, and offer in an increasingly manufactured world, about the role both humility and hustle play in business. Here now is the interview with Rebecca van Bergen of NEST… with first her answer about why she’s passionate about handcraft. 

Rebecca van Bergen: I mean, there's so many things I could talk for a really long time. I'm sure you could too, about this sector. One is that women do it for, for centuries. Men do it too, but it is a primary driver of economic independence for women. Specifically women can do it from home, which means that they can have other caregiving responsibilities. They can work in countries where gender discrimination is still strong. And so I think it is a really important income opportunity for women around the world. That's one.

The second is its relationship to culture. I think it really is so often a storytelling mechanism a way of defining communities, a way of defining family lines and generational lines. And so that makes it kind of deeply meaningful. I also really love that you can take it with you.

So we've been doing a lot of partnerships and working with refugee communities in the US and globally. Craft is something you always have no matter where you are. And in a time of kind of record displacement, that feels really important. 

Then the last one ...We're really interested [in] its connection to mindfulness and healing.

Not only is it income generating, but the repetitive motion of most crafts triggers the same brain chemistry as meditation. So not only can it provide income, but it actually also has these healing properties.

Pauline Bartolone: And what have you found in terms of what you think artisans need in terms of growing their business and what do they need to be successful?

Rebecca van Bergen: It actually turns out most artists and businesses have really similar needs. So regardless of where you're operating,  most often...the creative and the art is at the forefront and they're learning the business pieces on the go. We have a lot of 'solopreneurs' and then we have a lot of very micro businesses. So they're wearing many, many, many hats at all times. And so one of the things we've really seen, is limited time to learn the skills. And a limited ability to bring in experts to help you.

And so a lot of what we focus on is how to partner them with pro bono consultants to really help boost what they need in ways that are like very specific.

Pauline Bartolone: Can you share a story or two about an artisan that you worked with and. How'd that help them?

Rebecca van Bergen: There's so many, but I can share a few. One is that we have a really awesome partnership with the company Etsy, and we worked together on a collaborative program that's called Uplift Makers. The goal of the program was to identify communities that weren't yet accessing e-commerce at all. And so had incredible talent but weren't yet selling online.

We would identify communities. And then Etsy philanthropically supported Nest to provide educational workshops on e-commerce. So it's one thing to like have them know, but how do you actually build your shop? How do you do customer service? How do you handle shipping and logistics? How do you price your good?...Professional photography so that the goods really sell. So we provided robust educational support as they built their shops. And Etsy ended up generously committed to waiving the fees for the first several months that the community is on the platform.

And so we've run several amazing cohorts. We started in a tiny town in Alabama called GS Bend. It's a community of incredible Black quilters who have been making quilts for centuries and it's been passed down and they quilt at the Met [and] many art galleries.

There's a postage stamp for them, and yet they weren't selling e-commerce, which was, is shocking.  So we helped them build Etsy shops for the first time. And they're hovering near a million dollars in sales from the Etsy platform of new quilts, which is incredible. 

Pauline Bartolone: so as I mentioned, we have this series called The Secrets of Mastery, and this month we're talking about how artisans can make their businesses successful.

And they're obviously individual things that artisans can do, and then there are structural supports that help make craft businesses survive. So I wanted to ask you about both, actually. I'm wondering if you could comment on an individual level based on your work with artisans about what makes a craft business promising.

Rebecca van Bergen: I definitely don't have a secret sauce, but I can share some things we've seen. Which is that I think there does have to be an interest in making it a business and not a hobby or just something that brings you deep fulfillment. When there's a strong resistance to sales, then that can be a challenge to overcome if you wanna grow.

So I'd say that like a desire and an interest for it to be an actual business I think is important. So that's kind of one on an individual level. I think something that we've seen successful makers or artisans lean into is diversification. So making sure that you're selling in many different ways.

We pivoted and did a lot of just straight up relief during COVID because so many makers still sell at in-person markets as their primary way of driving revenue for their business. And so really push e-commerce, make sure you're selling in-person and online and maybe via social media and like now kind of diversification is just really important to how you're reaching people.

We do a lot of partnerships where we're encouraging people to do partnerships with brands, be willing to collaborate, do design, you know, design, licensing, think about ways that you education, teach craft to teach like hold workshops. So we really push and encourage makers to think about ways that they can stay within their craft and what they're passionate about, but find ways to kind of build both kind of business recognition, but also build revenue in ways ...they're reaching people in many, many different ways. 

Pauline Bartolone: So we've spoken to a lot of artisans for this series. I wanna get your thoughts on some of the things we've heard in terms of what makes businesses thrive. And we spoke to one, uh, glass artist, uh, last week who started out really small in Santa Cruz, and now she runs Annie Glass. She has her tableware and Neiman Marcus and Las Vegas hotels, and she says that one of the key characteristics of success is adaptability. What do you think she means by that? By needing to be adaptable?

Rebecca van Bergen: I think that's actually maybe a more articulate, eloquent way of saying what I was saying about kind of diversification, that I think it's really flexibility.

Being willing to kind of move with the times and opportunities, I think is, is super, super important for any micro or small business, but also this sector. You know, being willing to pivot away from in-person markets, being willing to pivot back now that everyone no longer wants to be online and they wanna be in person again, like to succeed. You have to know what your customer is feeling and move with them.

Pauline Bartolone: Yeah. And she also says that one important lesson she's learned is that it's important to hire up. To work with people who know more than you, and that's hard for some crass people to do.

Rebecca van Bergen: Yeah. I think it also means like hiring, we often hear like you need skills that are so different from the skills you have as a maker or an artist. We often hear like it's hiring up, but it's also just hiring parallel. Very different. Like you need an accountant, you need people in a really different field to help you. So I think she's right in terms of up, I think it's also maybe just like across sectors in ways that like can make it challenging to find the right supports is, is definitely something we see.

Pauline Bartolone: Is there something that, you know, you've been doing this for a while now, since 2006, working with small crass people around the world. What is the most complicated or most difficult part of trying to prop up their businesses? 

Rebecca van Bergen: I think like the lack of the needing to prove that the sector is valuable is, has been a major stumbling block that I think it takes a lot of time and effort to bring funders and partners along and really to really like, understand and want to invest value. And it's been interesting that like the retail landscape, when I founded Nest 18 years ago, Etsy was founded six months before Nest. So if you think back to that time, it's kind of crazy because now it's like, who hasn't heard of Etsy? Who hasn't heard of handmade, who hasn't heard of artisan? Like those are words that are so commonly thrown about the consumer landscape. 18 years ago they were not. And so artisan just meant like a knickknack you'd pick up while you traveled and maybe like a fair trade store, like 10,000 villages, but you wouldn't expect to find handmade goods at Target 18 years ago.

So there's been such a massive and very swift, in the scheme of things, movement for made local handmade artists and all these things that has been really revolutionary, honestly. But it's been fast. So for like retail to see the value of me investing in it, but some like philanthropy and investment and all of that lagged because it, it just has been fast.

And so how do you write the fact that major retailers wanna work with artisans, but there hasn't been any investment to make those artisans ready or scalable. It feels sort of like the sector's playing catch up almost.

Pauline Bartolone: Yeah, yeah, definitely. I wanted to share something else that actually a compost maker told us. He sends people compost around the US they buy, and he was just like, you have to be really humble to do this type of work. And we hear that a lot from artisans that it takes patience to be a craft person. There's a lot of trial and error.

It seems like the humility component and the ability to have patience comes into play when you're actually making the work. But in terms of becoming a successful business person, I'm wondering if you think that that is an essential component.

Rebecca van Bergen: I think you just sort of like hit the conundrum on the head,  which is that like makers and artists are expected to be all of those things. All at the same time. And is that even a realistic expectation to put on someone? I don't know. Because I agree with you. The making of craft requires precision, creativity, time to be creative, time to innovate, all of these things. And then selling is like a very different skill set and hustling and confidence and just a whole different thing. And so solopreneurs have it really, really hard where they need to be both of those things at the same time. And how do you do that? And so I think this is where we really hope that by investing in their business, they can eventually compliment their team and not be a solopreneur, but maybe have somebody else who can help them on the sales side that is more passionate about some of those things. That said, even if you're a hustler, I think humility is the name of the game for everything. That's one of our core values as an organization. We should always be learning and listening and there's almost no context where that's not important. So even if you have the sales mindset, I would think you're most accessible if you go into it humbly.

Pauline Bartolone: Thank you so much, Rebecca. I really appreciate it. Rebecca van Bergen is founder and executive director of NEST, which supports independent artisans all over the world.

NEST helped the United Nations launch a standard for ethical handcraft, a seal now used by brands sold in Target and Pottery Barn.

And that’s it for this episode of The Secrets of Mastery. Music in this series is by Blue Dot Sessions.

For more stories about how artisans are making their businesses work, check out our substack archive. You’ll find a story about how a glass artisan in Santa Cruz built up her tableware business and is now in the smithsonian.

And, if you haven’t already subscribe to The Secrets of Mastery podcast series at craftsmanship.net. That’s craftsmanship.net. You’ll find plenty of other stories there, too. Thanks for listening.